Hey beautiful ones.

One of our favourite kinds of literature is poetry. Its ability to hold the weight of histories, the gamut of human emotions and philosophies in a mere few lines is just *chef's kiss*.

Now we’re not saying we’re poets...but much like poetry, this new episode is short and sweet. For National Reading Day (celebrated annually on May 4th), we talk about the barriers to a loving relationship with recreational reading and how the national library service's weird rules to owning a library card is a part of that problem (and of course so much more).

It's the perfect episode to listen to while you detangle your hair or make yourself some breakfast.

Stay Lit 🌷

Transcript

Jherane: Hi, welcome to Like a Real Book Club podcast, where we talk about books and just about everything else I'm Jherane.

Kristina: Kristina.

Ashley: and I'm Ashley

Jherane: And today is read across Jamaica day . So I know last couple of years they've had a lot of politicians going in schools, reading to kids, and a lot of corporate branding reading to kids. And it's been interesting to see what that looks like now that we're in a pandemic.

And I think it's a really good initiative. I wish it was sewn through the rest of our policies with regards to having more people are reading all the time and not just children. Did you guys know that today was Read Across Jamaica day?

Kristina: I knew that it was today. I know that it's something that we have, regularly. I agree with you that it's a really great initiative. A part of me does cringe at the PR element of it, but I guess I understand why something like that is important. If you see one of your favorite persons participating in something like this, it might Get you a little bit more interested in it. What are some of the activities that they've been doing?

I'm curious about how kids receive days like this I'm curious about what the interaction is like generally. And if an initiative like this actually does increase the interest in reading among kids, and if anybody is doing that kind of data collection

Ashley: Well, I have one anecdotal experience. I went to my dressmaker today and she has a nine-year-old daughter . And usually when I go there, she's in her school uniform and today she wasn't So I said, "Hey, what's going on? You didn't go to school today?" Because she has to put on her school uniform to go to school over zoom.

Anyway she told me that today was Read Across Jamaica day, which is cool. I didn't know before.  She goes on to tell me that somebody read them abook. I don't remember who she said, read her the book. I don't think it was like a public figures Jamaican celebrity, but she went in as a lot of detail about the book, because I told her to tell me what she remembered or tell me about the story.

And it was about the story of the boy named Peter whose grandmother told him never under any circumstances t o start on fire and him never listen to her and it will start a fire and almost bun down the house  so she took me through, she was talking for about 20 minutes very animatedly about the story. I feel like that was, sort off a success. I don't know if that would have motivated her to read the book, but I know that the story in particular she was super excited about and was able to talk in great detail about, so that was really great to hear and see how excited she was.

Though, I will say that. I think she kind of took this day as like a 'free day'. So, I mean, they didn't do their usual school things and she wasn't in her uniform. So I guess maybe she was at least a bit more relaxed, but. I mean, maybe that's not so much of a bad thing because reading should be comfortable and it shouldn't be this rigid thing that you only with school

I mean, I like that. I like that it was pretty casual. Yeah, so that's how I know that today was Read Across Jamaica Day.

Jherane: I think that's pretty cool. Cause I think what I really like about it is that  it calls for people to be animated with books. So if you ever witness them,  it's huge Jamaican storytelling style with the books and the kids are excited. Even if they don't know the person, it's someone, who's not their teacher, who's coming to talk to them.

And they're excited about

Kristina: exciting.

Jherane: so exciting. I just wish it was a bit more normal or like a bit more frequent.

So we've been having, inadvertently having discussions on Twitter about the library service here in Jamaica. I didn't know how inaccessible the library was. Like I knew the library resource issues, but I didn't realize how a lot the policies they have in place makes it inaccessible.

So apparently kids can't get library cards in Jamaica.

Kristina: Which still blows my mind.

Jherane: Yeah. So your parent has to take out the book for you and there's a limit to three books. So someone just tweeted their account to say that they have two kids. All of them are readers. So she's, a reader, her kids are readers, but by the time she gets them books and their kids' books, they don't last very long.

So they can only check out three books. She gets three books for her kids. By the time they get homethe book done . So you need a TRN to get the book for those who don't know, that's a tax registration number in Jamaica. You need to get you need a proof of address, whether it's a utility bill or you need a JP to certify that you live somewhere.

None of this makes any sense for me. Why are we making it harder for people to read when it's not today?

Kristina:  While I was observing that conversation, I wrote about the library that you were having onto it. It made me wonder how accessible, isn't the word, but how. Normal libraries are for some people. Cause I was thinking to myself that when I was younger, the only library that I knew of was the library at my primary school.

I wasn't aware of the, or maybe I was aware of, but I didn't think that it was something that I could visit. I don't. I think the first time I actually visited the library was in high school

Ashley: Some sort of field trip?

Kristina: No, I think I visited it in high school. Actually I think during the fifth form when we're studying and preparing for CSEC, I think that was the first time that I actually went and visited the library and saw what it looked like.

But as I'm trying to recall my understanding of library being a place that I could actually go to, to sit and read books, I don't think that I had that idea. In my head, I'm trying to figure out why that was for me reading, books, meant, reading, whatever my brother had at that time.

So sometimes those were, the Hardy Boys books, and sometimes those were his textbooks that I just randomly tek up and read because it was there. Or I remember in primary school Because we used to have vendors outside. And sometimes there were vendors there who had like random books about very random things and they were selling them for cheap.

And I bought them on that. So, you know, I'd get books to read, but I don't recall really knowing and understanding the library as a place that I could go to for recreational reading. My understanding of library was this big place that was sort of far removed from me. It was something that felt adult yeah, it didn't feel like something for me, if that makes sense.

yeah that's been something that was on my mind while I was thinking about how inaccessible it seemingly is. Or the different barriers that are in place that can affect so many people who would be interested in going to the library and just picking up books to read.

Ashley: I totally agree. The library that I would have the most access to would be Tom Red Ca m Library and anybody who's (Red Cam). Right? Yeah. So it's like right beside Upper Park Camp.

Kristina: Little Theatre,

Ashley: and Little Theatre and-

which interestingly, so I used to go to Little Theatre to dance and it never occurred to me that it was right beside, Little Theatre either.

Jherane: Oh, no.

Kristina: Nope. Nope. Nope. Which is very sad

Ashley: Because it's like, it's such a tiny space. I mean, I used to go there sometimes. But that would be, it wouldn't be to read recreationally. It would be to do - -I know that I used the meet up there to have extra lessons, Spanish, extra lessons a few times, and then to do some sorts of research for school.

But then I'm thinking about  and maybe I'm reading it or looking into it too deeply, but in terms of you see how institutions like the Library Service in Jamaica shows you. Like how deeply routine we have or class issues, because who are the types of people that go to the library?

People who I know what's the type of, well, not necessarily energy, but in terms of the type of people that other people expect to see in the library and send to the library. They're usually people maybe who come from a working class background who may not have access to certain services like internet.

And so they all have to share a communal space and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I know definitely that growing up,the type of framing around using the library that I would always hear is  It's very, almost negative in a way where it's like, yeah, just go to the library.

 If I'm trying to explain, I don't know if I can explain what I'm thinking about, but you only expect certain people to go to the library. And I'm thinking about my relationships with libraries in general. There was a library at my high school and it's not somewhere that I used to go a lot to like, just sit down and read recreationally or even when I was at UWI. I mean, I'm go to the library to do work, but I'm not just going to chill out there. And just, that's not my spot where I go on. And just browse the aisles and read. And I don't know if that has more to do with me as a person and the type of activities that I gravitate towards or what libraries is like an institution mean to people in the 21st century.

But I know that especially, maybe in a secondary school system, people who seek the services of public libraries, there is like a class imbalance. And I think that the playing field kind of levels a little bit more when you go on to tertiary education, because there's some things that you need at a library that you can't access anywhere else.

I mean, will strengthen whatever it is that you're trying to research on.  So everybody kind of just uses it. But yeah, a lot of memories  memories of me being at Tom Red Cam Library and just seeing droves of school-aged children. It's a place that people go to just hang out and get away from their house and.

I don't know if it's necessarily read and you meet people and you hear stories about things that happen at the library.  I think that's the people who operate it too or managing to, there is like a disparity, especially with the age gap, because they're young people who are accessing the services of the library.

People are very quick to dismiss because they assume that every young person who goes to the library doesn't really go to use it in a way that they think should be used.

 I didn't see the conversation that was happening, but I hope that those types of topics are sprinkled in because there's a lots of like judgment, especially by older folk towards younger folk who want to have access to the library.

Kristina: I was here thinking about that class analysis that you brought in. And I wonder if that's mostly a Kingstone thing. Cause I feel like the people that

Jherane: No, it's not.

Kristina: Okay. Okay. But I definitely agree with you though

looking back now, I'm kind of wondering What kind of perceptions do we create nationally about libraries? And I guess about reading in general. So for a day like this Jherane had mentioned earlier that it would be great if it was an initiative that wouldn't be on children and yeah. Why not?

What is the The barrier or the reason behind not making it a general thing or a thing that targets adolescents, adults, senior citizens, just literally everybody what is the thing that prevents that-

Jherane: cause we don't actually care. I think it's easy to tell children to read because in your head it's like, "Reading is the future, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." But the idea of you doing it for yourself, of you nourishing yourself with knowledge, feels like "I don't have enough time." And that to me is a problem because if it is that you, aren't going to do the thing.

Don't tell other people to do it,

Ashley: either people don't read at all, but they're telling  the younger generation to read or what they do read are just books that are about getting ahead. And I know we've spoken about this to some degree in various podcasts and also meetings book, club meetings.

But I think that there is something to be said about people who only read self help books. I just, I don't know that we're all striving for improvement to be a better version of ourselves. But if your only concern is to grow your capital and to be the leader of our group, or to influence people,

I don't know how you can actively try to encourage somebody else to read about like, just recreationally, because those are not the type of books that we're reading to our children. We're not telling them that there is a, these are the 10 secrets to excelling at primary school, or like this is a self-help book to my kid. Or whatever. I don't know. But I just sit

Jherane: Don't give them any ideas.

Ashley: Oh yeah, I shouldn't. Right? But then I'm thinking about where the

transition comes in. Like, Oh my God, man. What, like what happens when or where is the transition between, I get to read about a really interesting story about fire and this little boy not listening to his grandmother.

And then all of a sudden I'm only expected to read about to. Growing, getting ahead, and growing capital, stocks, and whatever it is.

Jherane:  Jamaica has a  hustle culture. America has a hustle culture as well, and that is the dominant culture in our media. So there's just this weird rush, this anxiety around making money, making lots of money and surviving is really hard. But then there's this added culture of, if you're not.

Hustling or if you're not looking at ways to improve your hustle, then you're wasting time. And it's always such a culture shock to go to other countries where they don't have a hustle culture, even amongst working class people. There's this understanding of this need for rest. CS does our thing. Closing businesses, if it's too hot or too cold is a thing, not  because of.

Poor infrastructure . But just because the conditions are not ideal first to be working and we don't have that Jamaica very much has a hustle culture. So if you're going to be spending your free time reading, it should be to improve your hustle. And I get that. I just think it's very sad.

I think it's sad that we haven't recognized that. And I think that as adults we won't be able to fix the gaps in our reading culture if the people who are involved in these initiatives themselves, aren't looking at their peers and saying, "Hey, you should be reading as well."

Kristina: Yeah. Yeah. And that's probably the major issue with why nationally we don't do more encouragement of adults reading recreationally. It's like after, after that childhood age where you're already learning to read, so this is the best step to, to. Continue to push you to read more.

But after that, after schooling age, after a tertiary education, and you're now thrown into the rat race and it's a fight to survive. And so the predominant thing that you're thinking about now is all the different ways that I can survive. That looks like

Jherane: Building your brand

Kristina: Exactly like exactly that it looks like building your brand.

It

Jherane: monetizing your hobbies,

Kristina: about... mi no know whatever  people be doing, but that as well as

Jherane: nothing wrong with that. It's just that's the

Kristina: it's the only

Jherane: thing

It's like a burn-out recipe

Kristina: and I'm kind

of changing my mind around self-help. Not that I want to read self-help books, but I get why people are reading self-help books.

Life is hard for one, but also, people are looking for ways to to exist within the system. They're looking for to continue within the system and maybe even try to quote unquote, "beat the system".

Jherane: And hack life

Right? Exactly.

person

Kristina: to beat it too. So, so I get running to these things.

I may think that they're just empty feel- good platitudes, but those things are extremely empowering for people  it ties into the continuous race, always being on the hamster wheel. Always having a new, innovative idea, et cetera, et cetera.

Ashley: Yeah. I totally agree with Kristina

Everything gets dropped when you get to a certain age or you get to a certain point points in your life where you nuh bodda wid dem ting deh no more. You're not allowed to like, or you're not encouraged to explore and to think outside of the box and to expand your horizons outside of current events and self-help and getting rich, like there's no encouragement to do more and to read more and be more.

And I think in about maybe it's a Bible verse, or maybe it's just a religious quote about to "when I was a child, I did childish things when I became a man I had to put down my childish ways." I don't know if that's a quote. Don't come for me, religious people, but just in terms of like, why is reading considered childish?

Why is it that it's considered a childish and why is it that we're only promoting it to children. Because it's primary school children too. I'm hard pressed to find any sorts of like newspaper articles or pictures of them in high schools. And if it's the high school it's in the lower schools, still at 15 or 16 and under that is encouraged to read  everybody else over

Kristina: I mostly sit I'm with yeah. Mostly sit them with primary school age children, or I don't recall seeing photos of them in high school. They probably do go to high schools, but I don't know. But in the same vein. So while I was what I'm reading and trying to finish My Fishy Stepmom, I was thinking to myself that this book is such a great way to keep a Caribbean mythology alive such a great way to pass that on to younger generations.

Cause I'm thinking now about whether. Or what's our oral history. What's the word? Oral history culture, maybe. What that looks like for us here in Jamaica and wondering if that's still a vibrant sort of thing, where grandparents great grunt aunts, just older people in our families, whether they still share these stories and share these Different myths and folklores.

I'm trying to recall if that exists now, because I can remember in like primary school, we used to have those little, those really flat books.I don't know who used to give them to us, but I remember a lot of those books with a lot of Anansi stories. I remember learning about the White Witch of Rosehall from one of those books.

And this woman that turned into a cat one bag a sumn and I'm very curious about whether we have children's books, that center Jamaican folklore now. But yeah, this book makes me very curious about our oral history, oral tradition culture here in Jamaica.

And how vibrant that is right now. If that's all

Jherane: I think it's a mix where all lots of people are moving towards documenting it, and people are still keeping the oral tradition alive. Just before we wrap up. Cause this is supposed to be a really short episode

Kristina: I was looking at the time

Jherane: as long as have to be a bit Clare that, my ideas around toRead Across Jamaica thing is not about Read Across Jamaica, per se, it's just, our attitudes towards the culture of reading. I think we target it a bit too much on children. I get why we do it because you're supposed to build a habit, but then it just kind of drop off very quickly after

Kristina: doesn't become a regular

Jherane: which means. Yeah. It's for a particular age group and then we move on .

Ashley: Definitely not a coincidence that it's in May because

Jherane: it's education month yeah. Or education week?

Ashley: And child's month. 

Kristina: All just a campaign

Jherane: yeah.

Kristina: as in like, not even just that, nothing, not

Points and activity play.

hopefully reading becomes a lifestyle. Like, I don't know, maybe they need to make it a trend off sorts.

Ashley: They need to start a campaign like Jamaica Moves.

Kristina: That would be

Ashley: Jamaica

Kristina: cool.

Jherane: Jamaica Reads

Ashley: So everybody in Jamaica Reads exactly.

Jherane: yeah, I'd be done for that. That'd be really cool. Really nerdy in all the best ways..   I'm looking forward to a change in our reading cultures.

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Kristina: Follows across your social media

Jherane: Yeah, we have really interesting conversations on Twitter, such as this sometimes are funny on Twitter. Well, I think,

Kristina: talk about books and everything else. Just like the podcast,

Jherane:  Bye. See you at the club!